First things first, I don’t doubt it is a bad thing, considering who supports it and who doesn’t.
But my question is what exactly is the issue and what is the current and proposed voting process when it comes to IDs?
Here in my EU country, you have to show some version of a government ID, be it an ID card, drivers license or passport. And we don’t have to pre-register to vote.
Registering to vote is done by proving citizenship and residency, this is the step at which documents are checked. Doing it again at the polls duplicates work for little benefit.
The US system isn’t vulnerable. In order to meaningfully swing an election, it would require massed coordination between millions of people spread across hundreds of precincts. Each one would need to know that the person they are pretending to be has not voted and is not planning to vote after them - multiple voters for a single voter registration begins an investigation.
Voter rolls are purged frequently, so inactive registrations are not widely available for this kind of fraud. The rules vary by state, but generally if the voter does not cast a ballot for 2 consecutive elections they are deactivated.
Voters can only vote at their assigned polling places, meaning any large scale fraud must be distributed, increasing the number of people who must be involved and decreasing the likelihood it goes undetected.
So the argument against voter id is that some people can’t get the id they need due to financial reasons or whatever and thus this is disenfranchising minorities. But if you need that very same id to register to vote then your entire argument falls flat on its face.
Ahh this asshole again. Can you confine the bad faith arguments to one thread?
The documents used to prove residency and citizenship aren’t exclusively photo IDs. Voter ID laws of recent conversation have all required photo IDs.
Different IDs. Not ‘the very same’ IDs.
Which you would know if you cared about any of this beyond mud slinging and muddying the waters.
Can we discuss the facts and evidance for arguments not hurl personal insults its such activity us unbecoming of a good faith rational actor.
So as previously stated or can be verified by googling: every single state that currently has photo id requirements for voting either issues a specific voter id for free or waives the fees on existing id if the stated purpose is for voting. Any id requirements or requirements in general for voting are by federal law activities that must have a free option this protection already exists.
The prerequisite id to obtain the free id is the very same id as the id required for voter registration. Most notably birth certificates the form of id most commonly claimed via people in this thread to be hardest to obtain/produce for these alleged disenfranchised groups by people in this thread.
I’m not muddying water I’m simply drawing attention to the hypocrscy of your argument. To resolve your hypocracy you must either argue in favour of abolising all id requirements for voter registration or recind your argument against id requirements for voting. I understand the desire to have ones cake and eat it too but unfortunately that’s not how things work.
More words don’t make a stronger argument.
You are conflating registering to vote with requiring specific IDs at the polls, they are obviously different. Making a voting ID free to obtain is a constitutional requirement - not ‘federal law’. Making it free is not equivalent to making it easily obtainable. A key consideration against the current round of voter ID is the requirements would disenfranchise orders of magnitude more valid voters than the number of illegal ballots that have ever been cast in the US.
U.S. Passport or Passport Card - more than half of Americans don’t have one, it is a monthslong process to obtain (and not free).
REAL ID Compliant Driver’s License or Identification Card — only if it explicitly indicates U.S. citizenship on its face which the vast majority of state-issued REAL IDs do not do.
Valid U.S. Military Identification Card (that lists a place of birth in the U.S.).
Valid Tribal Photo Identification Document Issued by a federally recognized Tribal government and carrying an expiration date - most tribal IDs do not have expiration dates.
Valid Government-Issued Photo ID showing a U.S. place of birth - this would be a new class of IDs as no common photo ID lists POB.
#Two-Document Combination Option
If an applicant has a standard government-issued photo ID that does not state citizenship or place of birth on its face it must be accompanied by one of the following secondary proof-of-citizenship documents:
Certified U.S. Birth Certificate
Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA) issued by the U.S. Department of State.
Certificate of Naturalization or Certificate of Citizenship issued by USCIS/federal government.
Extract of a United States Civil Record of Birth.
Each of the above items must match exactly the name on the ID. Anyone who changed their name when they married would be denied. Anyone who’s name is recorded differently in hospital, state, and federal systems (incredibly common for middle names and Jr, II, etc.) would be denied until they secure court orders to correct their records in these systems - As a personal note, I’ve been trying to do this for myself for 8 years.
The SAVE act directs states to set up a new appeals process for these denials, which then gives authority over 10s of millions of voter registrations to county admin staff and effectively guarantees unequal enforcement.
The SAVE act further mandates voter rolls be purged every 30 days, so the onerous process above would need to be repeated if the voter ever misses an election.
After going through this to register, the voter then needs to show the same documents in order to be able to vote. The poll worker needs to make the same determinations based on these documents as the admin staff did when reviewing them at registration, or they deny the voter. Any mistakes are civil and criminal liabilities for the poll worker.
This goes far beyond “show your ID to vote :3”.
If you want to discuss the “facts and evidance[sic]” then how about you present the facts for the problem this step is supposed to solve?