cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/59455315
Former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura says the people of his state should consider leaving the United States. In an interview on the SpinSisters podcast that premiered Saturday, Ventura pitched his plan by saying that itās clear President Donald Trump doesnāt want the state.
āHow about since Trump dislikes Minnesota so bad and weāre so out of control, letās join Canada. Instead of Canada becoming the 51st state of America and lose their healthcareā¦ Iād like to see Minnesota, all of us become Canadians,ā Ventura said. Make this part of Canada, because itās obvious Donald Trump donāt want us. Itās obviously heās ready to fracture the whole country for his own folly."
We donāt want it. Minnesota voted 47% for Trump, and the Democrats are a right-wing party too from Canadian perspective, a massive block of far-right voters like this joining Canada would be devastating.
Americans need to sort their own shit out, not come crawling to Canada to do it for them. Weāve got our own issues to deal with.
The whole thing is silliness to make a pointā¦like Alberta separation. Butā¦
ā¦I wouldnāt be so sure with this positioning of Minnesotans, or any Americans, so far right of Canada. The American system has been gerrymandered and moved away from democracy in various waysā¦to the point where the actual people might be more aligned with Canada than you believe.
The only hardcore sticking point, in my estimation, would be guns. It would be a non-starter for too many on both sides.
That 47%-for-Trump figure cannot be explained by gerrymandering, itās a state-wide figure.
Frankly, Iām trying to make a point here too. Iām pointing out how even when Americans are supposedly being āniceā theyāre often still grounding their niceness in unspoken assumptions of American exceptionalism. A bit of America going āweāll just go join Canada and surely Canada will want to have usā has the same underlying feeling that obviously everyone would like to be American and join America if they could.
Sure it canā¦Minnesota and US-wide. Even though voter turnout in that state is relatively highā¦the last federal election saw higher than average Republican turnout and lower than average Democrat turnout.
Furthermore, voting intentions for Trump have fallen dramatically in Minnesota for obvious reasonsā¦while voting against him has seen almost the same rise.
Additionally, voting for Trump isnāt the same as being conservativeā¦thereās are very large cohorts of people who were for example: low information/previously apolitical, the Trump left, and independents and libertariansā¦it was a motley coalition.
Iād put actual hard conservative support in Minnesota in the 30-35% range. There are far too many people who would benefit from cheaper and higher quality healthcare and education immediately to maintain a number anywhere near 47%.
Itās not a secret that Republicans and conservatives in general can win elections with these low numbersā¦and round we go.
The point made above though is that anyone voting Democrat is extremely conservative by Canadian politics too; how many Minnesotans are currently willing to vote independent?
I think the reason that Democrats are in trouble is because they donāt represent their voters. Thereās a chasm between policy and opinion. That, and they need to win elections by at least 3 and up to 10 points because of how corrupt the US āDemocracyā is.
Iām Canadian and Iāve spent some time down in the USā¦I donāt consider myself to have radically different viewsā¦even from many American conservativesā¦except on a couple wedge issues. The problem, as I see it, isnāt that weāre differentā¦itās that there are people paying big bucks to convince us that we are.
The fact you donāt at all hnderstand why we wouldnāt want you, arenāt understanding what this person is saying, and seem to want to tell us what the problem is despite us laying out why we donāt like you in very clear language is exactly the kind of bullshit that makes us want to stay far, far away from that garbage.
The US sucks, and even at its best itās nowhere near even the mediocrity that is Canada. We do not need to tip the scales even further right, we do not need to throw gasoline on the fire.
You didnāt engage with anything I wrote and just ranted about what you wantedĀ to reply to.
Iām Canadianā¦and I stayed no opinions in my reply, just the lay of the land as I see it. I agree that the US sucks, agree that Canada is mediocre and getting worse, and I absolutely do not want Americans joining usā¦especially the gun nuts, fundamentalists etc.
All I was saying is that weāre a lot closer to each other than all this hyperbole and combative rhetoric would have us believeā¦Minnesota and isnāt some monolith of conservative boogeymenā¦theyāre mostly nice and reasonable people, and thereās many who would appreciate what makes us better than them.
You really think the only sticking point is guns? Seriously? I mean, us Canadians are largely politically quite ignorant and most of our knowledge is vibes-based parroting of things our parents said when we were children so fuck it, sure, whatever, dude. And hey, weāre already dumb enough that we see the US and still vote nearly half for PP so thereās that. Maybe MAGA actually would be welcome.
No, I dont think that. Are you just trying to find things to argue about? Sounds like we generally agree but you want to fight?
I wouldnāt say āCanadians are quite ignorantā, speak for yourselfā¦or maybe just conservative Canadians.
You said that you wouldnāt put the US super far right of Canada. At first I argued but honestly, with our level of ignorance despite the facts screaming at us, itās pretty correct to say that we are largely a center-right nation right now and only getting further from progressiveness.
Iām speaking for the country as a whole since thatās the level of generalization this conversation already started with(state-wide in Minnesotaās case). We, meaning Canadians as a whole, are quite ignorant of politics, generally just doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result because learning about new things is harder than just stereotyping the branding of our ideas of each party. Has all the energy of Conservatives genuinely believing that the Liberals are woke progressives just for the majority of the country.
Not Minnesota, no. Itās not in the Bible Beltā¦they love hockeyā¦they endure the cold. I think thereās more in common there with much of Canada than there are differences. Itās not the only differenceā¦but we couldnāt just move the border because weād get flooded with gunsā¦and half of them would literally revolt if they had to follow our gun rules. Itās a small stateā¦but thereās 6 million of them and theyād overwhelm us.
Yeahā¦Canada has pretty much lost sight of itās roots of being distinct and different from the US. We slide more and more into a capitalist hellscape. Most of our stores are Americanā¦Canadians consume less and less media thatās culturally Canadianā¦our right wingers tend not to differentiate themselves from American right wingersā¦and an increasing number of them prefer American right wingers to Canadian left wingersā¦and vice versa. Itās happened mostly in my lifetime and itās depressing. Very recentlyā¦20-30 years ago Canadians understood your message: that American left wingers are to the right of Canadian right wingersā¦but thatās all changedā¦I donāt know exactly when it happenedā¦but weāve become more homogenized.
Everybody in my circles is educated about politics, and we generally understand it better because of our education and complicated party systemā¦but yeahā¦weāre miles from being educated enough
They love hockey and endure the cold? Bro I very clearly tried to come around a little bit but holy shit if thatās what you go to first for similarities and not major cultural differences, like the fact that much of the state actually voted for Donal Trump, then this conversation is not going to move at much of a pace.
And yea, thereās been a change but to be honest itās been the classic people not paying any attention. We still voted Liberal in the past despite them always being very similar to how they are now, and their trend right-ward has always been there. Theyāre always elected because they try to scare people out of voting NDP, not because they actually offer anything that special. Itās literally why they went back on the voting reform they ran on in 2015.
Also āā¦ā are not replacements for periods.
Yeah, no thanks. Every American who moves up here brings their stupid gun toting baggage with them.
Bleeding Kansas