The gaming industry is fine. It’s all the AAA publishers that are shit.
The baby boom in the USA was a real demographic phenomenon but every “generation” after that gets fuzzier to the point where its now just rage bait nonsense or just a proxy term for complaining about changing fashions. Even within the Boomer cohort people had wildly different experiences growing up across such a large span. That said, every game studio I ever worked for was run by Gen X and Boomer aged people.
When they started in the industry it was small teams, tight budgets, a new frontier with a low bar to entry. Now it is highly corporate, capitalized, shareholder driven behemoth (like everything else). This transform happened when the millennial cohort was in our 20s, we had no influence on this, and it mirrored similar larger-scale transformations in the rest of society.
I’m fortunate in that I basically retired early, although I wouldn’t mind going back to work with a good group of people, even for cheap. Like the old days again. I still like the work I just hate the business. But it doesn’t matter, the whole industry is in ruins now.
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The ruin of modern games is the perfect shit storm of:
- The quest for the other side of the uncanny valley, making releases closer to decades
- The death of the in-house game engine.
- The half-baked attempt to cross-platform consoles with PCs
- The half-baked attempt to cross-platform mobile devices with consoles
- The merger of Live Service Games and Free to Play
- Game prices not following inflation.
- Everyone and their brother trying to take a major cut.
Shit is more complex and resource intensive than it has ever been, we’re hardly even looking to optimize these days if it works.
You get to choose from a couple of engines, who want a serious cut, or a free engine who has serious problems on consoles.
You need the game not only to pay for itself in sales, but in in-game sales without making it to gambley or making it too pay to win.
Adjusted for inflation, Mario Odyssey is $20 less at launch than E.T. was at launch for the atari.
It went to shit because big corpos realized there was money in the games industry. It went to shit because capitalism took the reins.
No one I know can afford to buy a house because our generations been so royally fucked in every which way, yet somehow we are responsible for steering the entire game industry in our twenties. Right… lol.
Bu-but Asmongold and Kirsche Verstahl told me the problem was woke gamedevs! /s
I’m aware this was sarcasm, but want to point out Asmongold is a Nazi sympathizer. No idea who the other person is.
The other is a Nazi VTuber, with her name allegedly being a dogwhistle (positive christianity if I recall correctly).
Asmongold is a priest of Nurgle.
Like they didn’t realize in the 90s
Institutional money didn’t take it seriously until the mid to late 2000s.
Big video game companies were already doing the same as today though.
That’s why most of the money hungry games were in the arcades back then. PC gaming wasn’t nearly as big.
You have a very different memory of that time
Probably because we grew up in completely different countries. Australia was very behind back in the day. We had a 2 year lag.
Most definitely can be refuted. There are hundreds or maybe thousands of amazing games out there made by young and old people that appeal to both young and old people. The issue Anon is struggling with is non gamer capitalists running game companies and milking games for every last penny at the cost of quality.
I know it’s a tired example, but look at the company and team responsible for BG3. A game that is widely considered one of the greatest games to be realsed in at least the last 10 years, maybe even longer. This game was made by a company owned and operated by old people and young people. The teams directing, designing, creating, and writing this game were made up of multiple generations of people, and what was made, unimpacted by corporate greed, was a masterpiece.
Good games are products of passion and creative freedom, not money or age.
There’more great games now then ever there ever was. So many choices. Plus, the older games didn’t disapear and there is no such thing as “the Golden Age of gaming” lol. It’s just that a bunch of low- losers are spending their days on the internet crying about “woke runing my videagame” because they see a woman not having huge boobs and a bikini armor.
Im currently enjoying there Blue Prince.
There’s nothing else like it, it’s challenging, and cozy.
If you like playing detective, and bring patience and like exploring and taking notes instead of hyper-focusing on one goal, it’s tens of hours of fun.
Only thing I don’t really like about it is the drafting mechanic. I hit a lot of “ooh! I think I know how to solve that puzzle!” or “Ooh, I think I vaguely remember something in that one room that I didn’t screenshot at the time but I’m pretty sure was a clue for the puzzle I just discovered!” only to never see the relevant room(s) in a bunch of runs. Hell, I’m pretty sure based on a clue that there’s some kind of clock room (if it’s just the den, I have no idea how to figure it out so I’m assuming there’s another clock room) I haven’t seen yet at all dozens of days in, another related puzzle that requires I draft a whole bunch of related rooms that I never get enough of (unless I’m on a wrong line of thought about that) and a third related to the other two where AFAIK I’m waiting on a random item drop and the room to use it in to appear in the same run.
Even something like being able to curate the deck more than the conservatory allows would be tremendous.
Yeah, that’s what I meant with having notes and pivoting: don’t focus on one puzzle like that. Follow all the threads and when you get the chance to make this one happen, do it.
For things related to items, you have an option to make things easier, e.g. I stored the power hammer in the coat check until I got both the coat check and a room I knew I could use the power hammer in. In the like 5 runs in between I just did other stuff, there’s always plenty to do.
Again, I think I understand what I need to do for one puzzle, but if I’m right I need to draft 8 specific rooms all in the same run (I’m hoping I’m wrong and can come up with some other answer). That’s…easier said than done barring a lot of luck. It’s very much that I’m pretty sure I know what the puzzle is and what the solution is but the game is unwilling to let me draft what I need to solve it.
I’m pretty sure one of my missing rooms from the directory is some kind of elevated clock room (“High up among all the clocks”, the only “high up” room I’ve really got is the Attic and the only room with a lot of clocks is the Den so it feels like I need a new room), but I’m a few dozen days in and haven’t seen one.
If you’re post room 46 you probably know what puzzle I’m talking about, and I’ve got 5/8 of the keys and the puzzle behind one door solved. The third one I’m missing is almost certainly in one of the lockboxes in the Vault, but that’s a matter of time and luck to get vault, the right deposit box key and enough steps to get from one to the other in the same day. It’s another case where it’s not an interesting puzzle or mystery, it’s waiting on RNG to allow me to do the thing. Getting those keys, figuring out the puzzles behind the doors, and finding the rest of the red envelopes are my current big goals.
And boy do I wish that I’d got the coat check the only run to date where I got all the parts for the power hammer. Currently got the emerald bracelet in mine, which is nice but…
I’ve been playing this, too! It’s a great game!
Young millennial/zillennial AAA game dev speaking.
It is 100% a top-down issue. Most devs are talented people. When you’re incentivized by quarterly returns as management, over a long enough timeline you begin to care less about game quality and more about stock prices and net revenue in addition to whatever else you need to satisfy your bloated ego, even if you started out as a passionate dev initially. The Indie and AA space is currently thriving because these incentives don’t factor in as much for them.
Just like game design, it’s an issue with a series of carrots and sticks, not necessarily the people involved (although psychopaths do exist and tend to be overrepresented in c-suites worldwide).
tldr; Capitalism ruins everything.
Unlike most "everything"s out there, games are doing great. Ignore shovelware and corpo schlock, some of the best games ever made have come out in the past few years. Genres get pushed, art gets made, phenomenal brain-off gameplay loops are polished, stories get told. Which world is better:
4 good games come out every year but it’s Nintendo and co making them. Also 100k bad games come out every year.
10 good games come out every year. Nintendo and Ubisoft and Sony churn out 29 shareholder revenue generators. There are nine million AI asset flip cash grabs and porn VNs released that year. People are paying 20,000 dollars a month for catgirl jpgs on their gambling phone games.
Who cares about “ratio” of good to schlock? You were never gonna play it all anyway. The last couple years alone saw everything from Balatro to Caves of Qud to Blue Prince.
The worse thing that can happen to your niche hobby is for it to go mainstream. US anime has been consolidated into the Sony/Crunchyroll/Funimation/Rightstuf monster.
Not that I disagree with you but it’s more like greed ruins everything
^ ^ ^ This is true, but I also think it’s important to note the role repeated financial and cultural success has on one’s mind and ego when elevated repeatedly by both the market and culture. You are not only just financially incentivized not to innovate, but your ego continues telling you “my ideas are always good no matter what others think” after these successes, even when that’s not necessarily true and you need to be reined in by others so your good ideas can still shine and the bad ones can be challenged. This is how top-down cultural problems in studio disciplines calcify in addition to financial incentives. It’s important as a person(s) running a successful studio to not surround yourself with yes-men, which is not an easy task due to the previously-mentioned perverse financial and egoist incentives.
The funny thing is, I’ve heard about quite a few Indie studios that are just as bad. They do the very same thing we condemn AAA for - crunch, micromanaging, and even harrasment.
I was very surprised to hear that the person who lead the development on monument valley was a massive dick to his employees.(Repeatedly would use management tricks and neg people to the point of depression and feeling worthless).
So, I can totally understand the cultural success thing. Though I’d like to believe that we are better than the corporate management suite, I have to remind myself that anyone can be a dick. You can be a progressive left leaning animal lover and still be a horrible parent.
I have worked only in the indie/AA sphere, and my experience here hasn’t been all that great either. But, I had always believed the problem was in the work culture of my country itself, and that I would probably find it better to work with those outside my country. No, people are the same everywhere, just of different flavours.
Though I’d still prefer to work with like minded people vs those place capital over everything else.
This is also true. I’ve worked at a number of startup indies/AA splinter-studios (studios comprised of former devs of hugely successful AAA franchises), and most of them were horribly mismanaged. The sheer existence of good videogames is a testament to the blood, sweat and tears poured into them by groups of insanely talented people finding ways to work together efficiently.
Capitalism doesn’t ruin everything. Corporatization ruins everything.
Who runs capitalism bozo
the local coffee shop isn’t a corporation
I’m just so sad that it seems most execs in the field go play tennis or golf after work and think videogames are for losers. there is a lot of contempt and expectation that losers will just forever dish out money. if it wasn’t for this strange phenomenon that game engines are so available nowadays, we would be screwed. thank god for the indie space
Tbf most gamers are, indeed, losers.
true but not quite relevant, most people who read books are also losers. free-time activities are really everyone’s own prerogative
I mean, the other guy brought it up.
Gamers gamify a system that can be gamed. More at 11.
There’s plenty of great games these days. The “golden age” wasn’t because of the quality of games. It was because I was able to delve into them deeply and enjoy them without all the concerns of my adult life running on the back of my mind pulling me out of it.
Obligatory:
No war but class war.
Gaming is insane right now. I can buy a game for $10 that would have won game of the year every year straight for an entire decade. Even saying this there’s probably like 15 games that fit this category.
Gamers today get what they deserve. If they want to consume triple A slop they’re going to get fucked. Its really simple.
I agree. There is a lot of great content for reasonable prices and a lot of terrible content for high prices. It’s a thriving industry. We just need to be intentional about our purchasing decisions.
I almost never pay more than 5$ for a game, get the free game from epic each week since last year, and I have hundreds of amazing games in my livrary. I litteraly could stop working and play super fun games 24/7 for the next 2-3 years without spending a dime. Up to a last year, I was litteraly playing on an overclocked i5 750 (16 y/o cpu) with a 1060i gpu, and can’t think of a game that wasn’t playable. I even worked on a small VR project on that computer lol.
STOP blaming age groups! It’s a divide and conquer tactic. It’s not your parent’s fault. It’s not your grandparent’s fault. It is the fault of the rising Oligarchy Super Wealthy. Their system works when we work against each other. We’re even suspicious and blame our parents and grandparents these days. WTF??
Ironically they blame their own children too
The executives, investors and accountants making the decisions that are ruining games are not millenials.
I am sure many are. Millenials are in their forties these days
The average age of a manager in gaming is 45 and the oldest millennial is 44 lol get mathed idiot
So almost half are millennials then?
There’s actually a single gaming CEO that hasn’t been born yet, bringing the average down.
Mean and median can be calculated for uneven distributions.
To be fair, “generations” are bullshit anyway
How quickly the goalposts move, very convenient
But yeah, I generally agree, I’m not the one that framed the discussion that way.
The only meaningful lines of division are along class groups, as the upper class continually consolidates wealth and decision-making power. It’s just that most rich people are also old.
Dude chill the fuck out.
I’m not the guy you’re responding to, but seriously you’re the idiot here.
The average age of a manager is 45 that means there are several that are younger and several that are older. Some may indeed be millennials. Maybe not.
Get “logiced” idiot! But foreal just chill out. What did that other guy ever do you other than suggest some managers might be millennials?
You’re tone policing a shitposting sub but I’m the one who needs to chill okay sure
If the average age is above any millennial, they couldn’t be the majority group. It makes no sense to pin blame on a younger generation when the reins of power are being clung to by the elder generation across all imaginable contexts, not just game development.
That guy said “many are”. Not most or majority or anything like that. I suppose it’s possible they edited their comment.
Sure man I’ll give up on the tone policing. You’re still an idiot going around calling other people idiots for no reason. Check your ego bro. That’s all I was saying
The old ones, yes
They’re Elder Millennials at best (born in the 80’s, maybe late 70’s). Or do they qualify as another generation ?
Late 70s would fall in Gen X.
Millennials start at around '85 depending on who you ask.
Generations seem to be more vibes-based than anything.
Edit:typo
Late 70s and the first few 80s years is a stretch, that’s Xennials. Elder Millenials and Xennials have an uneasy truce but we know the difference
I was about to say the same, most management is still gen x, even boomers (fucking retire please). Some low level managers are millennials, but these are not the people calling the shots. As usual, money hoarders make decisions, and you can accuse us millennials of a lot of things but having any money on us.
You might want to look, as usual, to indie millennial game devs. There you will see how we call the shots. We are nowhere that good as gen x indies, but we have our thing.
The golden age of games, also happened to have publishers who were just that, publishers, not slave drivers commanding the market and shutting down studios every time they sneezed.
- Hollow Knight (Silksong soonTM)
- Stardew Valley
- Factorio
- Outer Wilds
- Baldur’s Gate 3
- Clair Obscur
Gaming is fucking phenomenal right now, OP is looking in the wrong direction.
Games made by gamers vs corporations are two different worlds indeed
Indie gaming is the best it’s ever been. AAA gaming was always going to devolve into cashgrabs.
Yeah, as far as I’m concerned most AAA games might as well be part of a totally separate hobby that I don’t pay much attention to.
Also the craft of game-making has improved, so that even an average modern game is in many ways better than the best games from 25 years ago. For example, consider Diablo II. I played the remake a lot and large parts were as good as I remembered but what really stuck out to me was how boring the boss battles are. The height of skill is running in a circle around Diablo when he does his lightning hose attack. It’s far worse than pretty much any modern ARPG, not because the technology has improved but because people have learned from Diablo II’s mistakes.
Diablo II blew my mind in 2000 in a way that a better ARPG wouldn’t today, but that doesn’t mean that games have gotten worse. It means that I have gotten used to playing great games.
It’s far worse than pretty much any modern ARPG, not because the technology has improved but because people have learned from Diablo II’s mistakes.
I was ready to argue you at the start of the sentence and then went completely agreeing with you. New games aren’t better because they are new, but they have a potential to become better by learning about what worked good or bad in previous games. And it doesn’t make classics look bad now, like, we don’t need to fix Chess for how wild the horsey is in it, but coming to any old game requires setting oneself into the context of when it was launched, and therefore we need to see any new game through the lense of past experinces and how they learnt on mistakes of the past instead of repeating them.
Some people got it right back in the day.
Super Metroid is a perfect game from start to finish. I still play it a few times a year I’d say.
an edgelord’s gonna say: hurr durr nothing is perfect stop fooling yourself
a mature person, instead, would cheer you on finding your own perfection and take it as a good recomendation to try it themselves
I’ve had a similar experience.
For me it was more accessibility issues like timely checkpoints and not forcing the player to button mash.
I realized that a lot of my childhood gaming was possible because I just put up with gaming mechanics that need a lot of time and patience.
The past: don’t know what to do? Spend an hour just trying things and if that doesn’t work, try again tomorrow.
Today: don’t know what to do? This game has half an hour to give me a hint or I’m moving on to the next game cause I’m here to have fun damn it!
I seriously have nothing to say to anyone who doesn’t see it that way. If all you play is big budget corpo horseshit and your first instinct is to blame a generational cohort, that says more about you.
AAAlways has been .jpg. Just look at literally every sports game since the Street series.
Btw kudos on the memetic payload that is your username, you monster.
Hell yeah
Explicit content? What could be so explicit about a back massage?
To this day, I still wonder if the massager that my parents had, and LET US USE ON EACH OTHER, was actually marketed as a massager. It was basically the wand from the image above, but instead of the little egg/tooth vibrating thing on the end, it was like a massive UFO shape with different contours cut into rubber around the edge, and was big enough that it would be the appropriate size if we used it as a mace. Like, were they the typical ‘too innocent’ to think about it as a sex toy types, or was it really meant to be a massager?
Thoughts I shouldn’t have at night for $500, alex!
AAA games are made by companies that have boomers and early gen x in charge
Indie games are more likely to be made by people actually doing the development, i.e. millennials & early gen Z currently
Indie games have been having a great decade, AAA keeps getting worse
Thanks for attending my TED talk
AAA gaming shows the effects of late term capitalism on gaming.
Indie gaming now is great for players, but for gamedevs it is a saturated market and most of them don’t make a profit
And also, the rate of good AAA games coming out is still the same, it’s just they’re drowning by the see of identical boring cashgrabs.
It’s the same with all the other media, cool shit is still there, you just have to learn to filter the bullshit out.
That has to do with shareholders realizing they can make money out of the gaming industry. They basically ruined it like they ruined healthcare and housing.
When it was released in 1993, Doom — which was developed for under $1M USD — was earning id software $100k/day immediately upon release, in shareware registrations alone.
It’s no wonder capitalist leeches saw those returns and wanted to insert themselves in the process. Of course the more who latch on, the more value they need to extract by screwing over both the devs and the players.
Obviously the devs and players are actually the only two groups who are necessary in this relationship, and they’re the ones getting soaked.
PS by “devs” I mean anyone who works on the game to make it better.
It’s mobile games. It has always been mobile games.
A large part of the population is simply unwilling to treat games as a medium that requires quick reactions, precision and thinking. To them, gaming more like spinning slots in a casino. Until about 2012, these people didn’t realize such games existed on consoles or the PC, so we were safe. Eventually mobile app stores tapped into this massive market, got enormous returns and made everyone else realize how many people were willing to engage with a glorified skinner box.
Every fiscally responsible company now has to assess the degree of implementing these dogshit gameplay loops, instead of just not doing that like they used to.
The only AAA games safe from this are the ones that are extremely hard (complex) as a baseline. Stuff like Path Of Exile and Elden Ring.
The company I work for recently tried to make a mobile game, being a fairly informal studio with many gamers on staff we made something more like a mini linear rpg than a typical mobile game. Testers loved it but the publisher said it was too complicated for mobile and cancelled on us.
I don’t think that is true at all.
Strategy games existed, adventure and point and click existed, puzzles, turn based rpg, even forgiving platformers existed since before PC gaming, and flourished with PC gaming. Many of the hits needed nothing of that.
Many of the hits today still need all of that and are competitive.
The market grew, and with it came more audience and genres.
If we all liked yellow, what would happen to blue?
Those shareholders? Dentists. No love lost between them and the gamers.
